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Grouchy Smurf
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
2
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Posted - 2015.08.05 12:57:15 -
[1] - Quote
Lets take it one step at a time:
Icycle, would you have a problem if the Entosis links were costed at 1 billion isk? |
Grouchy Smurf
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
3
|
Posted - 2015.08.05 13:10:48 -
[2] - Quote
Why do you find that a commitment of 1 billion ISK for a module that is used to capture space at alliance level is bothersome?
Don't worry, we are taking it one step at a time. We will reach the overall point. |
Grouchy Smurf
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
3
|
Posted - 2015.08.05 14:11:47 -
[3] - Quote
So, so in layman's terms, you are saying that:
a) You don't want the entosis link to be expensive, because
b) You don't think you should support the Entosis ship with additional members.
Why do you think that capturing a system at alliance level is a 1-man activity? |
Grouchy Smurf
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
4
|
Posted - 2015.08.05 14:25:14 -
[4] - Quote
Icycle wrote:Grouchy Smurf wrote:So, so in layman's terms, you are saying that:
a) You don't want the entosis link to be expensive, because
b) You don't think you should support the Entosis ship with additional members.
Why do you think that capturing a system at alliance level is a 1-man activity? In terms i dont want the entosis to be expensive cos you dont need a bazzoka to attack a shop. I dont think the ihub should be too expensive either bytherway. I dont know about you but we usually support entosis ships with several other ships to get agro and kill something also. We dont really entosis without protection. We do have people either on that system or in the next system. One man can do nothing vs people that live in that area. Unless you dont live in that area ofcource  and dont happen to be there cos you dont live there. Then its fair game.
Can you answer the question stated or will you simply talk about "bazookas" , "shops" and other things that have nothing to do with the game?
The question was: Why do you think that capturing a system as alliance level is a 1-man activity. We reached to that question by following your statements that Entosis links shouldn't be 1 billion ISK each because you don't want to protect them with additional members.
If you think I misunderstood one of those statements or if you changed your mind, please let me know and I will reconsider. |
Grouchy Smurf
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
5
|
Posted - 2015.08.05 14:45:21 -
[5] - Quote
Again, you are adding things that no one talked about. I never mentioned TCUs, iHUBS, people using a system or not. Do not try to move the goal posts. I could easily reply by saying "Because I also used a 1 billion ISK module to put a base in that system that I don't use" but that will just point the discussion to a different area. I am trying to help you identify the problem that the overwhelming majority of alliances have right now: Disposable ships that engage in Sov warfare without ever intended to capture it.
I simply asked why would you, personally, be opposed to a module which enables the capture of space at an alliance level, to be costed at 1 billion ISK. It is my understanding that you really don't have an solid response to this other than "I don't like it".
If the system is emply / not used, then your 1 billion investment is safe.
If you have a support fleet, then your 1 billion investment is, relatively, safe.
So it makes no difference whatsoever to you / MoA.
Why do you have a problem with investing a great some of money when you plan capturing space at alliance level? ( I keep repeating the "alliance level" line again and again because it's what the mechanic is all about. You are not supposed to pay for the entosis link by yourself, your whole alliance has to chip in) |
Grouchy Smurf
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
5
|
Posted - 2015.08.05 14:59:24 -
[6] - Quote
Billy Bojangle wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:not actually participate in sov warfare. It's the CODE equivalent to nullsec. If the bears are lazy, they'll lose their ship or, in this case, space.
The problem is that CODE operates either at a loss (for troll ganking) or tries to earn a profit (by selecting targets and minimizing loses). These outcomes do not exist with Sov trolling. It's just you spending time so they can spend 10 times as much time. |
Grouchy Smurf
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
6
|
Posted - 2015.08.05 15:43:24 -
[7] - Quote
Icycle wrote:
The title of the thread is experince of Fozzie sov. Last time i checked fozzy sov is all about sov mechanics and capturing. The only thing you can capture are the stations. Everything else blows up after contested. Whats in Pure Blind? TCUs, IHUBs and stations and POSs. If you have full SRP and you get paind 200m per hour to attack something, I can understand that what we field is disposable for you. I can asure you that for MOA its not. We dont have the luxuries. It does not mean we dont bring out others in the past thought. We do scimies + other often. If you concider a scimi + other cheap, more power to you. Its not for us by any stretch of the imagination.
I oppose to a 1 b isk module cos the modules is very expensive as it is. Your mind set is till that you got to throw a billion to kill a billion. I oppose that mind set. If you are throwing a billion to kill a billion its NOT guerilla warfare. Its a contradiction. Guerilla are fast cheap and nimble. Not expensive and slow. Thats the army!
And everyone likes Fozziesov if we ignore some problems like Trollceptors or raising indexes desperacy. Which are the two topics every debate rotates about within these 11 pages of feedback.
Now, in regards to 1 billion ISK modules, MoA has 1100 members. If you are not willing to send 1 million per member in an attempt to capture space, especially since it's unlikely that you will lose it as we mentioned earlier, then you should reconsider where the money goes. If you can't spend 1 million per member, what makes you think that you will be able to afford TCUs and Industry HUBs when you capture said system?
And stop with that guerilla bullshit. You are not engaged in "guerilla warfare" with the Imperium as you are not damaging our economic infrastructure. KarmaFleet makes more on taxes alone than what you kill in a whole month.
You want more proof that you don't participate in guerilla warfare? Half of Pure Blind is open for a second attack that will flip systems / iHubs and stations to you. Why don't you do it? You don't want the benefits of your so-called "guerilla warfare" ?
Anyway, to return to the point of this discussion: You don't want 1 billion ISK Entosis links because you know that you won't be able to fly dozens of disposable ships per day just to troll someone. There is simply no other reason.
ps: If you really can't afford 1 billion with 1100 members and 10% tax, I am sure that your directors milk the **** out of your members. You might want to have that checked out. |
Grouchy Smurf
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
6
|
Posted - 2015.08.05 15:53:20 -
[8] - Quote
Antylus Tyrell wrote:
Goons, you really should have shed more systems than you did. You should have pulled back to Deklein and let other people move into the areas around you.
But they are not trying to capture the systems. That's the problem. They don't want the space. There are 10 systems in Pure Blind right now that are "neutral" and wait for someone to go and capture the nodes. |
Grouchy Smurf
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
6
|
Posted - 2015.08.05 18:43:03 -
[9] - Quote
Snowmann wrote:
Note: Non persistent simply means they don't stick around to defend ground, as in what guerilla combatants normally do.
No one said anything about defence. They are not ATTACKING them. Just look at them: http://evemaps.dotlan.net/sovereignty/campaigns/all/Pure_Blind
These are nodes out of their reinforcement periods, where they can attack them and claim them for themselves. And they are not doing it because it's not worth their time. Similarly, the Imperium does not defend them because by doing so it will enable MoA to launch trollceptors once more. |
Grouchy Smurf
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
6
|
Posted - 2015.08.05 18:56:50 -
[10] - Quote
Billy Bojangle wrote:
Why is there supposed to be a major distinction between reinforcement and attack? They have to bring a ship to reinforce so that is an attack of sorts. The fact they aren't bringing in a token fleet to get welped afterward seems like nothing more than good sense.
I am not sure I understood your reply.
The first attack on a node with Entosis link puts the structure in reinforced mode. After that period ends, a second attack either blow up the structure (IHUB, TCU) or captures it (Station). Or obviously puts it back to the defender's hands.
There are structures in Pure blink right now that are on their second capture circle for days. MoA doesn't want to destroy them because they will lose their trolling targets and the Imperium doesn't want to flip them back to secured because it will give new targets to MoA's campaign. |
Grouchy Smurf
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
6
|
Posted - 2015.08.05 19:18:45 -
[11] - Quote
Billy Bojangle wrote:
So it seems you've both arrived at new means to annoy one another. Content?
That's what people complain about. There there is nothing going on, which was exactly what was the status quo during DominionSov.
Billy Bojangle wrote:
Right. The point being the first action is an "attack," which you seemed to suggest wasn't the case above. Whether or not there is a followup doesn't mean there was no "attack," just that there was no followup.
Yeah, and why would they attack in the first instance if they don't intend to follow up? The answer is simply trolling. What makes it tedious and boring is that, compared to DomiSov, they attack risks way less (trollceptors instead of bomber or BS fleets / dread) and that the system doesn't return to defended slowly by it's own (regenerating shield in the old system)
Do you think that those two points are over the top and outside of the spirit of the new system? |
Grouchy Smurf
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
6
|
Posted - 2015.08.05 19:34:29 -
[12] - Quote
Billy Bojangle wrote:surely it would be no sweat for Imperium forces to launch a large scale campaign against another target? Nevermind for a moment that you don't want the space because, as we also discussed, you don't have to take it at all and are free to burn it for the sake of burning it.
Space aids.
We can't risk serious resources without being able to escalate if needed, and we can't risk move escalation forces near the target if there is nothing that we really need in that area.
Peacetime fleets for "Fun" go out almost every hour. You can be sure that they won't spend ~40 minutes looking at a node simply to reinforce a structure. |
Grouchy Smurf
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
6
|
Posted - 2015.08.05 20:04:45 -
[13] - Quote
Billy Bojangle wrote:
Risk from whom? I thought we agreed that there was trivial risk from the current reinforcements.
You said " large scale campaign against another target". I was thinking that you mean a real campaign against a real target . You know, the ones where capital ships are required.
You were obviously talking about trollceptors, so the answer is: Why would we have our members do something tedious without strategic value that will not even result in combat? If one of our members wants to go troll sov he can do it, it's up to him. Although, I would suggest a medical examinations afterwards. |
Grouchy Smurf
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
6
|
Posted - 2015.08.05 20:24:20 -
[14] - Quote
Billy Bojangle wrote:
DBRB spent months grinding structures in stealth bombers, but all of a sudden this is too tedious and of no strategic value?
Spent months grinding structures back when they could escalate to fights. |
Grouchy Smurf
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
6
|
Posted - 2015.08.05 20:33:04 -
[15] - Quote
Akballah Kassan wrote:
If anybody lived in those systems they'd be flipped back easily but nobody uses them. This is a prime example of Fozziesov in action. Some of those contested systems have less then 100 jumps per day through them.
So, why don't you capture them? The idea of FozzieSov is to allow small alliances to fight and control areas of space from larger entities. Something that couldn't be done with Dominion mechanics.
All those structures are open to capture, yet no small alliance has claimed them. And it makes no difference whatsoever to Imperium since the few members that live there still do their thing.
Billy Bojangle wrote:Grouchy Smurf wrote:Spent months grinding structures back when they could escalate to fights. And this went away because aegis? Nope. It went away when the last coalition large enough to escalate against you imploded.
Aegis did help. And bomber fleets are different than trollceptors. |
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